Legislature(2003 - 2004)

05/01/2003 07:08 AM House W&M

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                 ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                     
         HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON WAYS AND MEANS                                                                            
                        May 1, 2003                                                                                             
                         7:08 a.m.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Mike Hawker, Co-Chair                                                                                            
Representative Jim Whitaker, Co-Chair                                                                                           
Representative Cheryll Heinze                                                                                                   
Representative Vic Kohring                                                                                                      
Representative Bruce Weyhrauch                                                                                                  
Representative Peggy Wilson                                                                                                     
Representative Max Gruenberg                                                                                                    
Representative Carl Moses                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Norman Rokeberg                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Ralph Samuels                                                                                                    
Representative Paul Seaton                                                                                                      
Representative Dan Ogg                                                                                                          
Representative Harry Crawford                                                                                                   
Representative Kelly Wolf                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 293                                                                                                              
"An Act levying and collecting a state sales and use tax;                                                                       
and providing for an effective date."                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 293                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE:STATE SALES AND USE TAX                                                                                             
SPONSOR(S): WAYS & MEANS                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page        Action                                                                                                 
04/30/03 1202  (H) READ THE FIRST TIME -                                                                                        
                    REFERRALS                                                                                                   
04/30/03 1202  (H) W&M, FIN                                                                                                     
04/30/03 1202  (H) REFERRED TO WAYS & MEANS                                                                                     
05/01/03        (H) W&M AT 7:00 AM HOUSE FINANCE                                                                                
                    519                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
LARRY PERSILY, Deputy Commissioner                                                                                              
Office of the Commissioner                                                                                                      
Department of Revenue                                                                                                           
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:    Testified  on HB  293  and  answered                                                                    
questions.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
DAN DICKINSON, Director                                                                                                         
Tax Division                                                                                                                    
Department of Revenue                                                                                                           
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION  STATEMENT:    Testified  on HB  293  and  answered                                                                    
questions.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 03-20, SIDE A                                                                                                            
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JIM WHITAKER called the  House Special Committee on                                                                  
Ways   and   Means   meeting   to   order   at   7:08   a.m.                                                                    
Representatives    Hawker,   Whitaker,    Heinze,   Kohring,                                                                    
Weyhrauch, Wilson,  and Moses  were present  at the  call to                                                                    
order.  Representative Gruenberg  arrived as the meeting was                                                                    
in   progress.     Representatives  Samuels,   Ogg,  Seaton,                                                                    
Crawford, and Wolf were also present.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
HB 293-STATE SALES AND USE TAX                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WHITAKER announced that  the only order of business                                                                    
would be HOUSE BILL NO.  293, "An Act levying and collecting                                                                    
a state  sales and use  tax; and providing for  an effective                                                                    
date."                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 0055                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR HAWKER moved to adopt  HB 293, Version 23-LS1064\D,                                                                    
as the working document.   There being no objection, Version                                                                    
D was before the committee.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 0122                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
LARRY   PERSILY,   Deputy   Commissioner,  Office   of   the                                                                    
Commissioner,  Department of  Revenue, testified  on HB  293                                                                    
and answered  questions.   He told  the committee  that this                                                                    
[bill] is a  starting point for a sales and  use tax, but it                                                                    
does not include  any of the exemptions  that were discussed                                                                    
in  previous legislative  sessions.   For example,  he said,                                                                    
some of the exemptions that  were discussed were for medical                                                                    
care, prescription  drugs, food.  Furthermore,  [some of the                                                                    
exemptions had] caps  such that the tax would  only apply to                                                                    
a certain amount  of the purchase.  He  emphasized that this                                                                    
[legislation]  is a  starting point  from which  members can                                                                    
make   policy  decisions   that  will   determine  how   the                                                                    
legislature wants  it implemented,  what will be  taxed, and                                                                    
if  exemptions will  be  offered.   The  sales  and use  tax                                                                    
[bill]  would [delineate]  the administration,  enforcement,                                                                    
and  collection  of taxes.    He  said [the  administration]                                                                    
believes that  if a  sales tax  is to work  in the  state of                                                                    
Alaska,  and  work  for  businesses that  are  going  to  be                                                                    
collecting the tax on the  state's behalf, there needs to be                                                                    
one  set  of  laws  and exemptions;  one  central  point  of                                                                    
enforcement and  collection; and  audits so  [businesses and                                                                    
municipalities]  are dealing  with  just  one taxing  entity                                                                    
rather  than  98  different   taxing  entities  between  the                                                                    
communities, boroughs, and the state.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  PERSILY emphasized  that  the fiscal  note  is only  an                                                                    
estimate, not  a science.   He said  that the  Department of                                                                    
Revenue (department) believes  that if there is  a sales and                                                                    
use  tax  without  significant exemptions,  caps,  or  other                                                                    
measures that would detract from  the gain of revenue, there                                                                    
would be  roughly $110 million  dollars for every  1 percent                                                                    
of a  statewide year-round sales tax.   HB 293 proposes  a 3                                                                    
percent  sales and  use tax,  so there  would be  about $330                                                                    
million per year in revenue to  the state.  The first fiscal                                                                    
year would take  effect on January 1, 2004,  and tax returns                                                                    
would be due the next month  so the state would get 5 months                                                                    
worth  of  tax returns  in  FY  04  [which would  amount  to                                                                    
approximately] $135 million in  revenue and $330 [million in                                                                    
the  next year].   As  the economy  continues to  grow, that                                                                    
number would  grow with  it.  Mr.  Persily pointed  out that                                                                    
fiscal notes do  not take into account  growth or inflation.                                                                    
He directed  attention to  page 2 of  the fiscal  note where                                                                    
some  of  the   exempted  items  are  listed.     These  are                                                                    
exemptions that the  [administration] believes are essential                                                                    
to making [the  legislation] work and giving  it the clarity                                                                    
that  is needed.    For example,  there  are exemptions  for                                                                    
items such as sale for resale,  which means the sales tax is                                                                    
[only] collected  at the final  end purchaser at  the retail                                                                    
point  not at  every step  of the  way.   Some other  common                                                                    
sense  exemptions  are  ingredients or  components  used  in                                                                    
manufacturing  and   mining,  sales  to  or   by  government                                                                    
agencies,  and  purchases  with food  stamps,  WIC  (Special                                                                    
Supplemental  Nutrition  Program   for  Women,  Infants  and                                                                    
Children) coupons, wages, dividends, and interest.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 0521                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. PERSILY  told the members  that the  department strongly                                                                    
recommends that  if Alaska adopts  a sales and use  tax that                                                                    
it   conform   to   the  Streamlined   Sales   Tax   Project                                                                    
[Streamlined  Sales Tax  Agreement Project].   He  explained                                                                    
that  this is  a  nationwide effort  to  adopt a  simplified                                                                    
approach for customers and businesses.   As nationwide trade                                                                    
in Internet sales, phone, and  mail orders continue to grow,                                                                    
states have  realized that there are  significant amounts of                                                                    
money lost  to those sales tax  revenues.  Part of  the goal                                                                    
is to come up with nationwide  standards so that it would be                                                                    
easier  to   work  with  the  business   community,  thereby                                                                    
allowing  the  state to  start  collecting  those sales  tax                                                                    
revenues.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 0647                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DAN DICKINSON,  Director, Division  of Taxes,  Department of                                                                    
Revenue, testified  on HB  293 and  answered questions.   He                                                                    
provided the following testimony:                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     We  administer 19  different  tax  types, and  I'd                                                                         
     like to  take a  couple of  minutes to  talk about                                                                         
     one important aspect of a  tax that Alaska doesn't                                                                         
     have  -  and that  is  the  Streamlined Sales  Tax                                                                         
     Project.    What  is  the  Streamlined  Sales  Tax                                                                         
     Project and  what could  it mean  for Alaska?   It                                                                         
     will increase the likelihood that  we can get out-                                                                         
     of-state businesses to collect  sales taxes for us                                                                         
     on  their  sales  into  Alaska.   It  gives  us  a                                                                         
     precise   framework   for  simplicity,   fairness,                                                                         
     uniformity, and  certainty -  all worthy  goals of                                                                         
     any  tax programs.    And it  will  make Alaska  a                                                                         
     friendlier  place  to  do   business  than  if  we                                                                         
     instituted a complex maze for a sales tax.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Consider  for  a  moment a  business  selling  its                                                                         
     goods nationwide.  First of  all, it is confronted                                                                         
     with  7,500   different  taxing   jurisdictions  -                                                                         
     states,   cities,   and  counties,   and   special                                                                         
     jurisdictions  such as  transit districts,  school                                                                         
     districts,  or my  favorite,  the Brewers  Stadium                                                                         
     District   in   Wisconsin.       Many   of   these                                                                         
     jurisdictions   overlap.     Each  might   have  a                                                                         
     different sales  tax, rules, and  different rates.                                                                         
     Suppose the  state taxes clothing, but  the county                                                                         
     exempts clothing  but not  athletic gear,  but the                                                                         
     transit  district taxes  clothing but  considers a                                                                         
     softball mitt to be clothing.   The business would                                                                         
     have  to figure  out  which  transit district  and                                                                         
     which county  the address was in,  and then decide                                                                         
     whether  the purchase  was  taxable  for each  one                                                                         
     and, if so, what was the tax rate.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     If our  example were  in Mississippi,  there could                                                                         
     be  seven different  tax rates  depending on  what                                                                         
     was sold, ranging  from an 8 percent  tax on drink                                                                         
     for human consumption  through vending machines to                                                                         
     a  1  percent  tax  on services  performed  by  an                                                                         
     electrical power  association.   After withholding                                                                         
     the tax,  that same  business might be  subject to                                                                         
     three  different audits,  including  the one  that                                                                         
     said, "Oh, our rates changed  two weeks ago.  What                                                                         
     do you mean you didn't know?"                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     And suppose  the consumer bought an  item and sent                                                                         
     the  check to  a business'  corporate headquarters                                                                         
     in Missouri,  which then notified  its distributor                                                                         
     in Oregon,  who found  that the  closest warehouse                                                                         
     with  the  product  was  in  North  Carolina,  who                                                                         
     called  up a  shipping firm  in South  Carolina to                                                                         
     deliver it back to the  purchaser in Virginia.  In                                                                         
     what state  did the  sale occur?   Each  state may                                                                         
     have its  own sourcing rules and  each state could                                                                         
     say, "That sale occurred in our state."                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Now consider  the phone call itself  that was used                                                                         
     to  place the  order.   I will  not flesh  out the                                                                         
     full  example,  but  if you  think  about  it,  it                                                                         
     should come  as no  surprise that  AT&T is  one of                                                                         
     the biggest  backers of the Streamlined  Sales Tax                                                                         
     Project.    AT&T  nationwide  files  about  70,000                                                                         
     different sales tax returns a year.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Back  in 1967,  the U.S.  Supreme Court  looked at                                                                         
     all this and issued its  famous (or for some of us                                                                         
     infamous)  Bellas Hess  ruling.    Illinois had  a                                                                         
     sales and  use tax and  asked that Bellas  Hess, a                                                                         
     firm  in  Missouri  that sold  goods  by  mail  to                                                                         
     purchasers  in Illinois,  be  required to  collect                                                                         
     sales tax and  remit it to Missouri.   The Supreme                                                                         
     Court said  it would  be an intolerable  burden on                                                                         
     interstate  commerce  to require  an  out-of-state                                                                         
     business  to   do  all   the  work   necessary  to                                                                         
     accurately  collect the  tax.   As such,  no state                                                                         
     could  ask that  of businesses  outside its  legal                                                                         
     jurisdiction.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 1026                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Before we  roll our eyes  too much, let's  look at                                                                         
     what  a  retailer looking  at  Alaska  sees.   For                                                                         
     example,  the  Kenai  Peninsula Borough  has  a  2                                                                         
     percent tax  and, within the borough,  the City of                                                                         
     Homer  has  a  3  percent tax,  but  the  City  of                                                                         
     Kachemak has  none.  Another example,  the City of                                                                         
     Ketchikan  and  Ketchikan   Gateway  Borough  have                                                                         
     separate    sales   taxes.       Newspapers    and                                                                         
     publications  are taxable  in  the  city, but  not                                                                         
     under the  borough tax.   Residential  rentals are                                                                         
     taxable by the borough taxes, but not the city.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Many attempts to remedy this  mess fell short over                                                                         
     the  35  years since  the  court  case, while  the                                                                         
     amount  of  interstate   commerce  has  grown  and                                                                         
     grown.    Finally,  as  Internet  sales  hit,  the                                                                         
     Streamlined Sales Tax Project  looks like it might                                                                         
     have created a  good answer.  What  is the answer?                                                                         
     It  is a  short  statute  that each  participating                                                                         
     state must adopt  - the Uniform Sales  and Use Tax                                                                         
     Administration.   The  legislative  body for  that                                                                         
     act  says:    "This  state should  enter  into  an                                                                         
     agreement with one or more  states to simplify and                                                                         
     modernize  sales  and  use tax  administration  in                                                                         
     order to  substantially reduce  the burden  of tax                                                                         
     compliance for  all sellers and  for all  types of                                                                         
     commerce."                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     The agreement  between the  states sets  forth the                                                                         
     framework that a state tax must conform to:                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Uniform   Definitions  -   Any  state   that,  for                                                                         
     example,  that ...  exempts  groceries, but  taxes                                                                         
     restaurant  food  will have  to  treat  a ham  and                                                                         
     cheese croissant  from the  Safeway deli  the same                                                                         
     way as a croissant sandwich in a restaurant.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Rate  simplification -  Each state  may have  just                                                                         
     one  tax rate  covering all  categories, except  a                                                                         
     specialty allowance  for food and drugs  which may                                                                         
     have a  lower rate.   Each city  can have  its own                                                                         
     rate,  or other  jurisdiction added  to the  state                                                                         
     tax rate.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     It requires  state administration.   The  state is                                                                         
     responsible to  track local changes and  provide a                                                                         
     central point  of administration.  There  are also                                                                         
     uniform   sourcing   rules,   audit   rules,   and                                                                         
     administration of exempt transactions.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Thirty-eight  states  have   brought  the  project                                                                         
     together.  It is their  hope to ask Congress for a                                                                         
     law allowing  that if a  state is  a participating                                                                         
     member of this project,  then every business would                                                                         
     be  required to  collect  tax on  items sold  into                                                                         
     that  state.    Under the  Streamlined  Sales  Tax                                                                         
     Project,    such   collection    would   not    be                                                                         
     unreasonable  because it  would  no  longer be  an                                                                         
     unreasonable burden on interstate commerce.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 1257                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Before closing, let me mention  a couple of things                                                                         
     the  Streamlined Sales  Tax Project  does not  do.                                                                         
     It  does not  set the  tax  rate in  any state  or                                                                         
     city;  that  is  up  to   you  and  the  municipal                                                                         
     assemblies.   It  does not  set out  what you  can                                                                         
     decide to  exempt or not exempt;  it just requires                                                                         
     that  if  you  exempt   something  for  which  the                                                                         
     Streamlined  Sales Tax  Project has  a definition,                                                                         
     that you use the  definition.  The project creates                                                                         
     a  framework in  which legislatures  can make  the                                                                         
     critical policy decisions.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     As  you  think about  a  sales  tax, please  think                                                                         
     about  the  Streamlined  Sales Tax  Project.    We                                                                         
     would  be the  first state  to adopt  a sales  tax                                                                         
     since it came into being, and we have the chance                                                                           
     to learn from other states' mistakes.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Thank you,  and I'll  try to answer  any questions                                                                         
     you  may   have,  though   I  usually   do  better                                                                         
     answering  questions on  taxes  we  have in  place                                                                         
     rather than taxes we don't.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 1405                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. PERSILY pointed out that  the members have the executive                                                                    
summary  of  the  Streamlined Sales  Tax  Project  in  their                                                                    
packets.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR HAWKER  asked Mr. Dickinson  to reiterate  what the                                                                    
Streamlined Sales Tax Project does and what it does not do.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 1540                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. DICKINSON  explained that  it is  not a  prototype sales                                                                    
tax act, and merely passing  the model legislation would not                                                                    
be  the final  step.   This  project addresses  many of  the                                                                    
troubling areas  of sales taxes,  especially the  areas that                                                                    
are  troublesome  because  each state  has  different  rules                                                                    
instead  of  a  uniform  set  of  rules.    In  areas  where                                                                    
uniformity   is   not   required,  it   allows   the   local                                                                    
jurisdiction,  states, or  localities to  make the  critical                                                                    
decisions that are  important to them.  He  told the members                                                                    
that, for example, it's not  that AT&T wants to avoid taxes,                                                                    
it is  simply more expensive  in some  cases for them  to do                                                                    
the billing for a phone call,  than to route the phone call.                                                                    
When the  company has to  figure out each  jurisdiction, has                                                                    
to keep up  to date on all 7,500  possible changes including                                                                    
ones  that  they  were  not  aware  of  before,  it  becomes                                                                    
extremely  difficult.   Mr. Dickinson  said  that it  almost                                                                    
seems trivial, but  if the difference between  a transit and                                                                    
school district  does not  line up  with a  zip code,  it is                                                                    
hard for  the company to  send out  a bill because  they are                                                                    
unsure   if  the   addressee  is   in  the   right  set   of                                                                    
jurisdictions.   The natural reaction is  that business will                                                                    
say that if  they do not have a presence  in the state, they                                                                    
will  not establish  one.   There are  many businesses  that                                                                    
sell  in  Alaska  that  do  not have  a  presence  here,  he                                                                    
commented.  Under the current  rules, these companies do not                                                                    
have to collect sales taxes.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DICKINSON explained  that this  project would  create a                                                                    
structure  that  enables  businesses to  collect  taxes  and                                                                    
remit it  to [the  State of  Alaska] without  an intolerable                                                                    
burden.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 1830                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WEYHRAUCH  posed the  hypothetical  question                                                                    
that if the legislature were  to adopt the Streamlined Sales                                                                    
Tax  Project,  would it  require  Alaska  to enter  into  an                                                                    
interstate  compact  with  one  or  more  states  before  or                                                                    
concurrent  with the  law [being  enacted].   How does  that                                                                    
work, he asked.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DICKINSON responded  that if  this project  became law,                                                                    
then Alaska would become a  participating state with certain                                                                    
rights and  obligations.  No  state has ever passed  the act                                                                    
without having  a sales tax in  place, so there may  be some                                                                    
curious aspects with  respect to that.   The main obligation                                                                    
would  be that  when passing  the sales  tax act  itself, it                                                                    
must meet  the requirements of  the uniform standards.   Mr.                                                                    
Dickinson  offered the  example  of our  current income  tax                                                                    
under  Title  43.19 and  Title  43.20  for corporate  income                                                                    
taxes.   Title 43.19 covers  the multi-state act  which sets                                                                    
out broad  principles while Title 43.20  covers the specific                                                                    
implementation of those principles for Alaska.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 2039                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH  pointed out that  some communities                                                                    
already have sales  taxes.  If Alaska were to  adopt a sales                                                                    
tax  or   enter  into  this   uniform  sales  and   use  tax                                                                    
administration act  with other states, what  would happen to                                                                    
a local  communities' ability to  implement a sales  tax and                                                                    
garner the benefit of its own local sales tax, he asked.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. PERSILY  replied that  HB 293  rewrites that  section of                                                                    
Title 29 which deals with  municipal powers.  It simply says                                                                    
that  the legislature  or state  determines the  exemptions,                                                                    
enforcement,  collection, and  administration  of the  sales                                                                    
tax.   He explained that  the municipality would  simply say                                                                    
to the  state that  it wants  a 2 percent,  3 percent,  or 4                                                                    
percent  sales   tax  and  that  would   be  collected  from                                                                    
businesses  in its  jurisdiction.   The state  would collect                                                                    
the taxes and send them back to the municipality.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 2227                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WEYHRAUCH surmised  that [the  state assumes                                                                    
authority in collecting  the tax] then delegates  it back to                                                                    
the municipalities through a check.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. PERSILY responded that the  municipalities would get the                                                                    
money, and  could in essence,  shutdown the local  sales tax                                                                    
offices.    In   Juneau's  case  there  are   38  sales  tax                                                                    
exemptions,  those would  go away  and the  state sales  tax                                                                    
exemptions would be in effect, he explained.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH  posed a  situation which  this law                                                                    
is in place.  He asked if  the local sales tax would go away                                                                    
and the  city would  simply [tell  the state]  it wants  a 5                                                                    
percent sales tax  on sales from the community  or would the                                                                    
state say this  is what has been calculated  for the [local]                                                                    
sales tax and the state would send the city a check.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 2359                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  PERSILY clarified  that  if this  law  went effect  the                                                                    
municipalities  would tell  the  state  what [percent  sales                                                                    
tax] rate,  which is  set by  municipal ordinance,  it wants                                                                    
collected.  The  state would collect the sales  tax and send                                                                    
the municipality a check.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WEYHRAUCH  referred  to the  "Comparison  of                                                                    
State   and  Local   Retail  Sales   Tax"  chart   that  was                                                                    
distributed to  the members, where  there is a maximum  of 7                                                                    
percent that  can be levied  by communities under  Title 29.                                                                    
He asked if that assumption is correct.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. PERSILY replied that the  highest sales tax in the state                                                                    
is 7 percent right now.  He  told the members that he is not                                                                    
aware of  a limit  on sales taxes  under Title  29; however,                                                                    
cities  who currently  have a  5 percent,  6 percent,  and 7                                                                    
percent [sales tax], will be  worried that if the state adds                                                                    
on  another 3  percent sales  tax,  it will  hurt the  local                                                                    
economy.   The legislature could setup  something in statute                                                                    
that  may include  a grandfather  clause  specifying that  a                                                                    
combined  state/local rate  may  not exceed  8 percent,  for                                                                    
example.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH  said that  he believes  that under                                                                    
this  scheme,  the local  tax  would  be supplanted  by  the                                                                    
statewide policy  and the city  would have the  incentive to                                                                    
say it wants the 7 percent  sales tax, even if the community                                                                    
does not have a sales tax in place now.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 2530                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DICKINSON highlighted  that  in Anchorage  there is  no                                                                    
sales tax  and if the  city did not introduce  one, everyone                                                                    
there would  be paying a  3 percent  sales tax on  goods and                                                                    
services.   If  Anchorage were  to add  the 7  percent, then                                                                    
everyone  would be  paying 10  percent.   The aforementioned                                                                    
decision  remains  with  the local  government.    Before  a                                                                    
community could  get 7  percent refunded,  it would  have to                                                                    
add  the 7  percent [sales  tax] on  all goods  and services                                                                    
sold in the community.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. PERSILY stated that there  is nothing in statute or this                                                                    
legislation  that  sets  a maximum  rate  for  the  combined                                                                    
state/municipal tax rate.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 2634                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH asked if  Mr. Persily believes this                                                                    
bill could become  a sales tax exemption bill  rather than a                                                                    
sales tax bill.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. PERSILY  responded that it  will be incumbent  on public                                                                    
officials to hold  the line against lobbyists  who will want                                                                    
to  turn it  into  an  exemption bill.    This could  become                                                                    
something like Juneau's sales tax  with 38 exemptions, which                                                                    
requires a  much higher  rate to obtain  the same  amount of                                                                    
revenue, he said.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  HAWKER  commented  that whatever  is  accomplished                                                                    
[with this bill] must accommodate  local tax structures.  He                                                                    
pointed  out  that  communities   with  property  taxes  are                                                                    
relevant.   It  is  important to  note  the aggregate  self-                                                                    
assessed, self-reliance  that communities are taking  on.  A                                                                    
fair benchmark of looking at  that is the per capita revenue                                                                    
generated from whatever sources  are within the communities.                                                                    
As  Representative  Weyhrauch  pointed out,  the  sales  tax                                                                    
project  offers an  extreme benefit  across the  state.   If                                                                    
there  is  uniformity  and  consistency,  it  will  make  it                                                                    
possible   for   statewide    businesses   to   work   among                                                                    
jurisdictions.   Co-Chair Hawker  commented that it  will be                                                                    
important to work with communities  and the Alaska Municipal                                                                    
League.  He  said he believes this is a  vital dialogue.  As                                                                    
divergent  as interests  are in  these  communities the  per                                                                    
capita burden,  on Fairbanks and  Anchorage is less  than $2                                                                    
per capita difference.  The local  tax burden in the City of                                                                    
Wrangell which  is often  cited as a  community with  a high                                                                    
tax  burden  is  less  than   $60  per  capita  higher  than                                                                    
Anchorage and  Fairbanks.  The Streamlined  Sales Tax system                                                                    
offers efficiency, consistency,  and facilitates business in                                                                    
the state.  He said  he agrees with Representative Weyhrauch                                                                    
that the  great fear is that  this bill does not  become one                                                                    
that panders to special interests.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WHITAKER noted for  the record that Representatives                                                                    
Gruenberg, Wolf, and Crawford have joined the meeting.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 3055                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SAMUELS asked if  all the exemptions would be                                                                    
accepted statewide, or  do the exemptions just  have to meet                                                                    
the statewide definitions.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  PERSILY  replied  that  state  statute  would  set  the                                                                    
exemptions  and  the  municipal  exemptions  would  go  away                                                                    
because the [municipalities] would lose that authority.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 3157                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR HAWKER told the members  that the Streamlined Sales                                                                    
Tax Project  has detailed position papers  on many subjects.                                                                    
The  issue  that  Representative  Samuels'  just  raised  is                                                                    
discussed under a series of  position papers on subject.  He                                                                    
told  the  members that  copies  of  those papers  would  be                                                                    
distributed to the members.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 3241                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   OGG  asked   how   the   state's  cost   of                                                                    
administration would  differ from  the [current]  local cost                                                                    
of administration.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. PERSILY responded  that the bill and  fiscal note before                                                                    
the committee  assumes that  the state  will fund  the total                                                                    
cost of  enforcing, administering, and collecting  the sales                                                                    
tax.   The local municipalities, cities,  and boroughs could                                                                    
shutdown their sales tax collection  efforts.  He noted that                                                                    
it  will become  a policy  call  for the  legislature as  to                                                                    
whether the  state pays the  total cost and sends  the check                                                                    
to the communities, or the  state charges municipalities for                                                                    
the services that  are provided.  He reiterated  that in the                                                                    
current fiscal note  there is the assumption  that the state                                                                    
pays the total  cost in Alaska and just sends  the checks to                                                                    
the cities.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 3400                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  OGG  summarized  that  if  Kodiak  had  a  6                                                                    
percent sales  tax, there would be  no administrative costs;                                                                    
the city would just receive a check for the sales tax.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  PERSILY  responded  that  as   the  bill  is  currently                                                                    
written,  that is  a correct  assumption.   The  communities                                                                    
would see the revenue, and save the administrative costs.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 3422                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. DICKINSON  advised the members  that at  one Streamlined                                                                    
Sales Tax  Project meeting that  he attended that  issue was                                                                    
hotly debated.   He explained that what might  be an option,                                                                    
for example, is  that the City of Kodiak may  want to employ                                                                    
a  part-time  person  to  review   the  state's  records  on                                                                    
distribution.   It  is  a  policy question,  he  said.   The                                                                    
legislature may  say the state will  do everything necessary                                                                    
and then the  municipality may chose to have  some degree of                                                                    
interaction   to   ensure   that  the   municipalities   are                                                                    
comfortable and that it makes  sense.  There is an "analogy"                                                                    
[currently in place] with statewide  property taxes that are                                                                    
assessed,  and the  localities are  very interested  in what                                                                    
happens in that process.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGG pointed out  that existing sales taxes in                                                                    
some communities  are high,  some are low,  and some  have a                                                                    
cap.   He asked if there  has been any analysis  on the kind                                                                    
of impact  a statewide sales  tax would have  on communities                                                                    
that  have used  local sales  taxes as  a way  of offsetting                                                                    
property taxes.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 3702                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  PERSILY responded  that  one of  the  policy calls  the                                                                    
legislature  will   have  to  make  in   dealing  with  this                                                                    
legislation is whether  to set a cap and  whether it applies                                                                    
to  only certain  goods.   The analysis  of this  policy was                                                                    
discussed  at great  length in  fiscal policy  meetings over                                                                    
the last couple of years.   He explained that the discussion                                                                    
centered on the  fact that there is a threshold  of pain, at                                                                    
which point  the tax rate is  so high that it  does begin to                                                                    
affect consumers'  purchases.  In  other words, he  said, at                                                                    
what point will [consumers] say  they will not pay the sales                                                                    
tax, and  buy  an item  somewhere else.  Mr.  Persily stated                                                                    
that he is  not aware of any scientific  study or conclusion                                                                    
[on  this  issue]  other than  the  recognition  that  there                                                                    
probably  is  a  point  at which  consumer  habits  will  be                                                                    
impacted.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DICKINSON told  the members  that with  the Streamlined                                                                    
Sales  Tax Act  there  would  be a  phase  out  of caps  and                                                                    
thresholds by December  31, 2005.  However,  it is important                                                                    
to  note  that  certain  sales would  be  exempted.    Those                                                                    
exemptions   are  motor   vehicles,  aircraft,   watercraft,                                                                    
modular homes, manufactured homes,  and mobile homes.  Homes                                                                    
are  exempted  because they  are  real  property, and  motor                                                                    
vehicles  are  not  covered  because  there  is  a  specific                                                                    
exemption under the uniform sales tax.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. DICKINSON, in response  to Representative Ogg, clarified                                                                    
that under  the Streamlined Sales  Tax Act there  could only                                                                    
be  caps on  motor vehicles,  aircraft, watercraft,  modular                                                                    
homes, manufactured  homes, and mobile homes.   For example,                                                                    
Tennessee  has a  cap  on  an aircraft  over  $100,000.   He                                                                    
explained that  the state could continue  to make exceptions                                                                    
and pass caps on how much  an Alaskan would have to pay when                                                                    
purchasing a car or a boat,  although the state would not be                                                                    
exempting it from the sales tax.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 4007                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WILSON inquired  as to  how the  state would                                                                    
take  over the  collection of  sales tax.   Would  the state                                                                    
contract  with someone  locally or  send [a  state employee]                                                                    
into each community, she asked.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. PERSILY explained that the  state would set up a central                                                                    
sales tax  office so that there  would be one place  to send                                                                    
the  checks.    He  added   that  there  would  possibly  be                                                                    
satellite  offices  in  larger  communities.    However,  he                                                                    
mentioned that some communities may  want to keep someone on                                                                    
staff to monitor state collections and enforcement.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 4125                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON  commented that the person  doing that                                                                    
work in local communities would lose his/her job.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. PERSILY acknowledged that the  cities have the option of                                                                    
eliminating  that  position  or   reassigning  it  to  other                                                                    
duties.  However,  communities may want to keep  staff on to                                                                    
monitor the collection of sales taxes.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. DICKINSON  pointed out  that this  bill does  not affect                                                                    
special  excise taxes.    For example,  the  local raw  fish                                                                    
taxes and  bed taxes will  still be  a local option  and may                                                                    
still require  administrators.  This  bill only refers  to a                                                                    
broad-based sales tax, he said.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG  asked   how  the  bill  addresses                                                                    
Internet sales.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 4344                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. DICKINSON  replied that [Internet  sales] are  the focus                                                                    
of the Streamlined  Sales Tax Act and the  same rules apply.                                                                    
For  example,  if Amazon.com  does  not  have a  substantial                                                                    
presence  in the  state, and  it sends  books or  records to                                                                    
Alaska, it has no obligation to  collect a sales tax for the                                                                    
localities or a statewide sales  tax.  Once this Streamlined                                                                    
Sales  Tax [Act]  is in  place,  the notion  is that  either                                                                    
through  a federal  court decision  or federal  legislation,                                                                    
[Internet companies]  would be required to  start collecting                                                                    
taxes.  He added that  Amazon.com is fine with the processes                                                                    
of  collecting taxes;  they  just do  not want  to  be in  a                                                                    
position of not knowing what is necessary.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR HAWKER asked Mr. Dickinson  to explain Section 5 of                                                                    
the  Uniform Sales  and Use  Tax  Administration Act,  which                                                                    
authorizes the state  to enter into a  streamlined sales and                                                                    
use tax with other states.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. DICKINSON  read the  following quote  from Section  5 of                                                                    
the [Uniform Sales and Use Tax Administration Act]:                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     No provision  of the agreement authorized  by this                                                                         
     act, in  whole or  in part, invalidates  or amends                                                                         
     any provision of the law  of this state.  Adoption                                                                         
     of the  agreement by the  state does not  amend or                                                                         
     modify any  law of  this state,  implementation of                                                                         
     any  condition of  the  agreement  in this  state,                                                                         
     whether adopted before or  after the membership of                                                                         
     this agreement must be an action of this state.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. DICKINSON  said that all  this act  does is set  out the                                                                    
broad framework that  says the state is going  to enter into                                                                    
agreement with one or any number  of other states.  He added                                                                    
that the  notion right now  is that agreement would  be with                                                                    
38 other states.   He told the members the  agreement is set                                                                    
out so  that the goal  would be to  bring the state  in line                                                                    
with  the   principles  enunciated  here.     Mr.  Dickinson                                                                    
summarized that  the uniform  act sets the  goal.   He asked                                                                    
the members to look at another  sentence in Section 7 of the                                                                    
uniform act, which says:                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
        This agreement authorized by this act is an                                                                             
     accord among individual cooperating sovereigns in                                                                          
     furtherance of their governmental functions.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DICKINSON  summarized  that  this is  not  some  agency                                                                    
coming in and  telling [Alaska] what to do;  it is basically                                                                    
saying that  if Alaska does  this the same way  other states                                                                    
are doing it, there will be a mutual benefit.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 4646                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HEINZE  said that  she is  confused regarding                                                                    
what items are taxable.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 03-20, SIDE B                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. PERSILY specified that real property is not taxable.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 4631                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DICKINSON  said property  is  either  real or  personal                                                                    
property.   For example,  the valuation of  the Trans-Alaska                                                                    
Pipeline  System  is  considered  personal  property.    Mr.                                                                    
Dickinson said  it is  important to  recognize that  this is                                                                    
not just  a sales  tax, but also  a sales and  use tax.   To                                                                    
ensure that the  state is not swamped  with importation from                                                                    
states  with a  lower sales  tax, the  use tax  becomes very                                                                    
important.  He used the example  of someone buying a sofa in                                                                    
Seattle  and shipping  it to  Alaska.   That person  may not                                                                    
fill out paperwork, but just go  ahead and pay the sales tax                                                                    
in Washington.   The  individual could use  the tax  paid in                                                                    
Washington as a  credit toward the sales tax  in Alaska, and                                                                    
then he/she would  not have to pay anything.   Mr. Dickinson                                                                    
explained  that  it  will  be   up  to  the  legislature  to                                                                    
determine   how  the   state  will   deal  with   industrial                                                                    
purchases.   In some states,  the purchase of  any business-                                                                    
related  materials are  exempt.   Other  states only  exempt                                                                    
items that  are purchased for  resale.  He posed  an example                                                                    
of a business building chairs.   On one extreme the wood and                                                                    
varnish are  tax exempt  while the  tools are  not.   In the                                                                    
other  extreme,  where  there is  a  blanket  exemption  for                                                                    
business,  the  tools  would  be   exempt.    Mr.  Dickinson                                                                    
identified that  as one  of the  decisions the  members will                                                                    
have  to  make.    In  HB  293  there  is  a  fairly  narrow                                                                    
restriction  on  exemptions.    That  issue  varies  greatly                                                                    
between states, he said.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 4336                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HEINZE  said  that   she  noticed  the  bill                                                                    
analysis   specifies   that   certain   exemptions   include                                                                    
ingredients and  components of manufacturing.   If  a module                                                                    
built  in Kenai  is on  its way  to Prudhoe  Bay, would  the                                                                    
components be  tax exempt while  the completed  module would                                                                    
be taxed.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DICKINSON explained  that if  a firm  in Kenai  were to                                                                    
purchase all  the pieces, use  them to create a  module, and                                                                    
then sell it  to a producer on the North  Slope, the company                                                                    
that  purchased the  pieces would  not be  taxed.   However,                                                                    
when the module  is sold, it [the sale of  the module] would                                                                    
be  taxed.    If  the  entire  process  were  owned  by  the                                                                    
producer, in other  words, a Kenai firm  was fabricating it,                                                                    
then as those  [imported pieces] were brought  in they would                                                                    
be taxed.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  WHITAKER clarified  that the  item would  be taxed                                                                    
only once.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. DICKINSON agreed and pointed out  that is why there is a                                                                    
use tax credit for tax already paid in other states.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 4127                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON  asked how this  tax would work  for a                                                                    
restaurant.   For example, when  lettuce is purchased  for a                                                                    
salad, no  tax is paid;  however, when  the salad is  sold a                                                                    
tax is charged.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. DICKINSON  commented that if the  legislature chooses to                                                                    
exempt all business inputs, then  when the restaurateur buys                                                                    
lettuce he/she would not pay  tax, although there would be a                                                                    
tax on the  meal.  He explained  that a system is  set up so                                                                    
that  when   the  restaurateur   goes  to  the   store,  the                                                                    
restaurateur  simply presents  the  tax exempt  certificate.                                                                    
The problem  with this is that  in a recent court  case, for                                                                    
example, where  a funeral parlor purchased  a 50-gallon tank                                                                    
of weed  killer the  court ruled that  was not  a reasonable                                                                    
use   and  that   the   business   honoring  the   exemption                                                                    
certificate  should   have  asked   more  questions.     Mr.                                                                    
Dickinson said  one of the reasons  this bill is so  long is                                                                    
that it gets into the  businesses' obligations to each other                                                                    
when  resale or  exemption certificates  are presented.   He                                                                    
emphasized that  the goal  is to  only tax  items once.   He                                                                    
explained that there is also  a direct pay certificate.  For                                                                    
example, in  a restaurant only  the things that  were resold                                                                    
[were  taxable]  not  the items  that  contributed  to  that                                                                    
resale.  With  a direct pay certificate,  a restaurant would                                                                    
figure out on a monthly basis  what was taxable and what was                                                                    
not and  pay the state monthly.   This method may  be easier                                                                    
for the business  than determining what is  taxable and what                                                                    
is not each time there is a purchase.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 3804                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WHITAKER asked Mr. Persily to  go over page 4 and 5                                                                    
of the  fiscal note  where the department  recommends adding                                                                    
provisions to the legislation.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. PERSILY  told the members  that the first two  items the                                                                    
department recommends  adding to  the legislation has  to do                                                                    
with the  streamlined sales tax.   He said that  he believes                                                                    
there should  be something in  the legislation  that directs                                                                    
the  department to  write  regulations  that are  consistent                                                                    
with  a  streamlined  sales   tax,  particularly  a  section                                                                    
detailing sourcing of  services.  The third  item deals with                                                                    
bartering.   The  department is  not proposing  exempting or                                                                    
taxing  bartering; however,  the legislature  should address                                                                    
the  issue.   He pointed  out that  the taxing  of bartering                                                                    
would be very  difficult to enforce.  The  fourth item would                                                                    
allow the department to issue direct pay permits.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR.  PERSILY   said  the  next   several  items   deal  with                                                                    
consolidating  liability.   He explained  the Department  of                                                                    
Revenue hired  an individual several  years ago on  a short-                                                                    
term contract  to research a draft  sales tax bill.   It was                                                                    
done because  the department  believed at  some time  in the                                                                    
future a  sales tax  would be  considered.   As a  result of                                                                    
that research  the 25 suggestions  brought issues  to light.                                                                    
Mr. Persily told the committee  that some of these items are                                                                    
housekeeping,  and some  are significant.    He pointed  out                                                                    
that  the   draft  bill  presented  to   the  House  Special                                                                    
Committee on Ways and Means is  a work in progress and still                                                                    
needs technical changes to it.   For example, item six needs                                                                    
the first sentence  deleted and the word  "however" added to                                                                    
the second sentence.  Item  seven would clarify that this is                                                                    
a sales  and use tax.   This  change would ensure  that each                                                                    
reference refers to  both.  Mr. Persily  explained that item                                                                    
nine  deals  with  the  connection  needed  to  have  taxing                                                                    
jurisdiction over an  entity.  Under existing  law [there is                                                                    
a requirement for]  a physical presence in  the state, which                                                                    
is why Amazon.com, for example,  sales into Alaska cannot be                                                                    
required to  collect sales  tax because  there is  no nexus.                                                                    
Mr. Persily said that the  department wants this legislation                                                                    
to say  that the state can  collect sales taxes to  the full                                                                    
extent that is allowed by the U.S. Constitution.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. DICKINSON  added that this  is something  the department                                                                    
hopes will  be changed in the  near term.  The  notion is to                                                                    
make it a very broad [statement].                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 3331                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. PERSILY explained that item  11 deals with certificates.                                                                    
For example, in  Juneau when a building  permit is obtained,                                                                    
all  purchases are  exempt from  sales tax.   Each  building                                                                    
permit holder is  issued a card so when  there are purchases                                                                    
made  for  the project,  the  items  are  logged in  as  tax                                                                    
exempt.  This section allows  for two kinds of certificates,                                                                    
one  of   which  is  a   blanket  certificate   or  specific                                                                    
transaction certificate.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  PERSILY  told  the  members that  item  13  deals  with                                                                    
Section  43.40.090 which  exempts government  purchases from                                                                    
sales  taxes.   [That exemption  includes] city,  municipal,                                                                    
state,  school districts,  and Indian  tribes.   This change                                                                    
would  amend the  section to  read "a  federally recognized"                                                                    
Indian tribe.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  PERSILY  summarized his  comments  by  saying that  the                                                                    
remaining  items deal  with adopting  the streamlined  sales                                                                    
tax  definitions.   He said  he is  not aware  of any  other                                                                    
changes that are significant, and  asked Mr. Dickinson if he                                                                    
would like to add anything to what he has said.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. DICKINSON  agreed that the  rest of the changes  are not                                                                    
significant policy calls for the committee.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 3100                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  HAWKER   asked  Mr.  Persily  if   the  department                                                                    
believes   the  legislature   should  consider   a  separate                                                                    
[higher]  rate  structure on  sales  of  contraband and  the                                                                    
performance of illegal services.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. PERSILY replied that he is  not sure there is a good way                                                                    
to answer that question.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DICKINSON observed  that if  the state  does adopt  the                                                                    
streamlined  sales tax,  only one  general rate  is allowed,                                                                    
although the states do allow a different rate for drugs.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  HAWKER commented  that addressing  that issue  may                                                                    
have to be handled by a separate excise tax.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. DICKINSON  agreed that  is possible.   He added  that if                                                                    
the  state  wanted to  put  on  a  separate excise  tax  for                                                                    
marijuana that would be permissible.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 2929                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON  asked Mr. Dickinson about  a question                                                                    
of fairness.   Because of Alaska's  great vastness, products                                                                    
must  travel  great  distances  to  reach  consumers.    For                                                                    
example,  the cost  of a  gallon of  milk in  Wrangell costs                                                                    
$3.99 so if  there were a 3 percent sales  tax the residents                                                                    
would  be paying  12 cents;  however,  the cost  in Nome  is                                                                    
$5.69  so the  residents there  would  be pay  17 cents,  in                                                                    
Kotzebue the cost is $8 a  gallon so they would be paying 24                                                                    
cents for  the same  gallon of milk,  and in  Anchorage that                                                                    
same gallon of milk is only  $3.49 so they would only pay 10                                                                    
cents on that gallon of milk.   She asked how fairness would                                                                    
be addressed in this case.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. DICKINSON replied that a  fair way of handling this kind                                                                    
of purchase would be to handle  purchases by unit and not by                                                                    
the price.  He explained  that fairness [can be achieved] by                                                                    
treating everyone the same based  on how much they spend, or                                                                    
by going to a per unit basis.   However, with a broad tax it                                                                    
is hard to go to a  per unit basis.  Mr. Dickinson explained                                                                    
that some states that tax food  go to a credit that allows a                                                                    
payment   back   to   low-income    families   who   pay   a                                                                    
disproportionately large  portion of  their income  on taxes                                                                    
because  they spend  a disproportionately  large portion  on                                                                    
food.  There  are a number ways of dealing  with this issue.                                                                    
Mr. Dickinson  told the  members the most  common way  is to                                                                    
keep these purchases outside the  sales tax system, but make                                                                    
it a  remission to the  targeted group so they  receive back                                                                    
some of what they have paid in.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 2614                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WILSON  commented  that   it  will  be  very                                                                    
difficult  because of  the cost  of transportation  [that is                                                                    
added to the purchase price.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  PERSILY addressed  Representative  Wilson's concern  by                                                                    
saying that  if the legislature  wants to adopt a  sales tax                                                                    
as  a part  of an  overall fiscal  plan, it  is not  easy to                                                                    
overcome  the  fact  that  there  is  a  certain  amount  of                                                                    
unfairness.   If a person  pays more for a  certain product,                                                                    
that person will pay more tax, he said.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WILSON  suggested  providing  a  payback  to                                                                    
those areas might be a good idea.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 2452                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HEINZE noted  that the  bill does  not allow                                                                    
for the sale of natural gas to  be exempt.  She asked if Mr.                                                                    
Persily believes this  will produce a large  impact on rural                                                                    
Alaska.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. PERSILY replied  that utilities are not tax  exempt.  He                                                                    
said  he believes  that the  component in  the manufacturing                                                                    
process would be tax exempt.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 2309                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR HAWKER  told the members  that he concurs  with Mr.                                                                    
Dickinson's  response on  fairness  and equalization  across                                                                    
the state.   If the measure  is truly to be  the same dollar                                                                    
collected  across  the  state   no  matter  where  residents                                                                    
reside, it  is important  to look at  a system  of unitizing                                                                    
assessment structure.  He said  he believes this will be the                                                                    
more daunting challenge in this process.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. PERSILY  clarified his response  by saying that  the gas                                                                    
purchased to  turn into fertilizer  would not be taxed.   In                                                                    
response  to Representative  Heinze's  question about  sales                                                                    
tax on natural  gas for Chugach Electric,  he explained that                                                                    
the gas the  company purchases would not be  taxed, but when                                                                    
electricity is  sold to a  customer, the customer  would pay                                                                    
[tax] on the electricity that is generated from that gas.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 2138                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  OGG  commented  on  Representative  Wilson's                                                                    
idea  and  suggested that  while  it  may be  impossible  to                                                                    
credit  individuals,   perhaps  it  would  be   possible  to                                                                    
compensate communities  on a CPI  [Consumer Price  Index] or                                                                    
something similar to that.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 2038                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. PERSILY pointed out that  the department also provided a                                                                    
document titled "Comparison of State  and Local Retail Sales                                                                    
Taxes", which is  a summary of other  statewide sales taxes.                                                                    
He explained that  this handout was provided  to provide the                                                                    
members  an idea  of what  other states  charge; what  other                                                                    
cities  and   boroughs  of  Alaska  charge;   how  much  the                                                                    
department believes  would be  raised; and  who would  pay a                                                                    
tax.     For   example,   the   department  estimates   that                                                                    
approximately 10  percent of the year-round  sales tax would                                                                    
be  paid by  out-of-state  visitors  and temporary  workers.                                                                    
Another item  which is titled "Building  Blocks" raises some                                                                    
of  the  policy  and  technical   issues  that  need  to  be                                                                    
considered as the committee crafts a sales tax bill.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 1921                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WHITAKER  asked the members to  give this necessary                                                                    
component to a fiscal plan a great deal of thought.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING  told the committee he  has a concern                                                                    
about the  sponsor statement.   He asked that  the statement                                                                    
reflect that  this bill  was produced  at the  suggestion of                                                                    
the co-chairs and not the whole committee.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  WHITAKER  responded  that the  committee  will  be                                                                    
happy to comply with his request.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 1637                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WILSON commented  that  even if  there is  a                                                                    
mechanism to  payback communities  [that pay  an inequitable                                                                    
amount  of  sales  tax]  the  individual  citizens  in  that                                                                    
community will  not be reimbursed.   For  example, Wrangell,                                                                    
which  has the  highest  sales  tax in  the  state, will  be                                                                    
paying 10 percent if the  state implements a 3 percent sales                                                                    
tax.   Representative  Wilson cautioned  that the  committee                                                                    
must work to  make this fair because if it  cannot be worked                                                                    
out,  she  said  she  would  not  be  able  to  support  the                                                                    
legislation.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
[HB 293 was held over.]                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being  no further  business before the  committee, the                                                                    
House  Special  Committee  on Ways  and  Means  meeting  was                                                                    
adjourned at 8:28 a.m.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                

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